#i don't really read their relationship as romantic

[gremlin-girly]

Valentine's Night

Pairing: Bucky x f!Reader

Tags/Warnings: FLUFF, established relationship, petnames (dolll)

I don't want to spoil the story with the last tag but it's all Fluff I promise.

Not beta'd and I do not give permission for my work to be reposted, copied, translated or put through an AI Machine.

Summary: Your boyfriend is determined to ensure you have a good Valentine's day.

Word count: 752

Dividers by: @/enchanthings-a

Navigation | Valentine's Masterlist | Bucky Masterlist

Bucky used to be a romantic. Emphasis on used to be.

It's not that he wouldn't buy flowers or do romantic things but more the mindset of life being lovey-dovey, sunshine and rainbows after living 70 years as a ghost was seemingly pointless.

Until he met you.

Re-learning to be a romantic was probably one of the hardest things Bucky had re-learned to do. Turns out, what used to be normal in the 30s was now one of many things; misogynistic, toxic, too fast, desperate, archaic, or bordering on stalker behaviour.

He hadn't wanted to come on too strong but your patience with him and slowly fanned the embers deep within his soul and now flames soared in their place. You'd only been dating a short while, although Bucky had been pining after you for some time, and when he'd mentioned Valentine's Day (hoping to gauge your thoughts on a romantic dinner) he was surprised to find that you despised the holiday and all that it (currently) stood for.

"It used to be a celebration of love," you said, scrunching your nose in disgust as you stab at your food. "Now it's commercialised by companies to make a major profit."

Bucky smiled half at your cute expression and half relieved that it wasn't something he had to plan for in too much detail.

"So, what would you want to do doll?" He'd asked, testing the waters.

You blinked in surprise, faint splash of pink gracing your cheeks. "Oh. Well. Erm... I'd like a quiet night in with some wine."

Bucky nods, taking a forkful of food and chewing thoughtfully. If a quiet night in was what you wanted, it was what you'd get. However, Bucky was determined it was going to be a night to remember.

Bucky had set up everything perfectly. A dozen red roses (because he couldn't help himself), wine, ice cream, blanket fort and a good movie.

Nothing over the top, no glitter, no hearts.

But Bucky was still nervous when you came over after work. He wrung his hands and raked his hair every two minutes, completely restless. Moreso when you handed him a card and a bar of his favourite chocolate.

He hadn't gotten you a card, he felt awful. But every card had "I love you"'s plastered all over them and Bucky didn't want to scare you off, even if he really wanted to give you one.

You, on the other hand, were also a nervous wreck. You'd tried to downplay your expectations for Valentine's Day, not wanting Bucky to feel pressured to do anything extravagant given how early you were in your relationship, but you'd be lying if you said you didn't want anything at all. Despite being concrete in your stance that Valentine's Day was now a horrid money-making scheme, Bucky had exceeded your expectations by miles and you were struggling not to blurt out something that could potentially tank your relationship, and ruin your card, in mere seconds.

Bucky gently opened the red envelope, muttering an apology for not getting you a card, pulling out a card covered in red hearts and two cartoon bears hugging eachother.

The front of the card read "To the one I love on Valentine's Day" and the inside of the card had a message scrawled in your handwriting, and a printed Happy Valentine's Day in red slap bang in the centre. It read as follows;

"To Bucky,

Happy Valentine's Day!

I know I said I didn't like Valentine's but I couldn't not get you something. These last few months have been amazing and I look forward to many more together.

Love you lots,

Y/N xxx"

Bucky's breathing all but halted, his blue eyes scanning your message over and over again. You shifted uncomfortably, wondering if you'd been too forward, if he was scared by your very roundabout declaration of love for him.

"Listen if it's too much too soon I-"

"I love you." Bucky blurts, flushing red. Your face follows suit as heat rolls up your neck and your heart thuds happily. "I mean, too. I love you too."

"I love you too, Buck." You reply, a giant beaming smile appearing over your face. "And happy Commercialised Heart Day."

Making your first declarations of love on Valentine's Day took the sourness out of the day itself, and replaced it instead with a tradition of wine and ice cream every year from then on - with plenty of kisses and "I love you"'s to make any Valentine's card jealous

End

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@awkwardgiraffe726 | @irishhappiness | @disneyprincessbuffyannesummers

[olderthannetfic]

https://www.tumblr.com/olderthannetfic/774737485890813952/i-mean-i-do-feel-like-if-someone-was-traumatized?source=share

So glad I read your response to this because it reflects my thoughts on the matter. Interestingly, my aha came from trying to figure out what the difference between Fandom and Religion are. Because there is one. Clearly.

But like Religious people make religious artwork, right essays and stories (The Red Tent was great), log their sources "religiously" like a fanwiki. Hell "fan" is short for "fanatic" so the equivalency is baked it. Fandom *looks* religious from an outside perspective. But they are Not The Same. Helenists, Classicists, and Zag/Than fanartists are doing different things.

But you know what that entire discussion looks and feels like? "What makes going to the movies with your girl different from with your bros?" "OK, But I give my mom chocolate too?" And other such "what makes these actions Romantic when none of them inherently are?"

Anyway, I've added something to my version of the Split Atrraction Model. Sexual, Romantic, Platonic, Aesthetic, and Agapic(Agape). I didn't even have to coin the term Agape, we already had a word for Divine Love.

Indulging in the Agape Drive does a Thing. A Thing that is Fulfilling to those that feel it and completely baffling to those that don't. Like me. 100% anagape here. Even when I was completely convinced Mormonism was true I was never really tempted to do anything about it. I just Don't Get It, but it does suddenly make a lot of Evangelist Arguments make sense.

"Aren't you sad and lonely without god?" Nope. I'm also not sad and lonely without a romantic partner. On account of the Aromanticism. Good day, sir.

However, alloros do feel more fulfilled in romantic relationships. So they should be able to have them. And people who feel divine love should also be able to fulfill that need.

This does make Cult Leaders the Agape version of abusive partners and Megachurch pastors the equivalent of catfishers. They just use that religious drive to get away with abuse/take all your money instead of sex and romance.

--

[yanderes-galore]

Hey if it's okay I can request a yandere doflamingo with prompts 25 "if you weren't such a dumbass, this wouldn't have happened" and 6 "tell me darling. do you like making me mad". Where darling gets caught trying to escape with the help of a friend or family member.

Oof, I'm writing one creep after another. Here's Doflamingo being... himself.

Prompts Here

Yandere! Doflamingo Prompts 25 + 6

“If you werent such a dumbass, this wouldn’t have happned.”

“Tell me, Do you like making me mad??” 

Pairing: Romantic

Possible Trigger Warnings: Gender-Neutral Darling, Obsession, Manipulation, Possessive behavior, Swearing (Obviously), Kidnapping, Isolation, Violence, Murder, Blood, Threats, Forced relationship.

The sickening crack of a flintlock pistol goes off in your ears. You barely registered the scream that left your mouth. Even as a loud thump hits the ground... you barely register this as reality.

"Sweetheart... People don't just leave the Donquixote Family..." A familiar deep voice purrs, a large figure shuffling closer.

"Especially not with help from outsiders...."

You knew what he said was true. With how deep you were into the Donquixote Pirates, there was no way you were going to get off with no issue. Your plan was a desperate yet foolish one...

Even more so considering Doflamingo was your 'lover'...

Not by your choice.

It was not your intention to gain Doflamingo's attention. You saw him and his crew as tyrants and wanted nothing to do with him. Unfortunately...

Doflamingo always found your defiance attractive.

Against your family's wishes, Doflamingo claimed he wanted you to join his crew. Normally it's rather difficult to be a part of his 'family'. Although... you weren't meant to be like the rest...

You've always been more of a pet or a toy compared to a genuine lover.

Taken from your family against your will, Doflamingo claimed you to be his. You were made to always follow the Warlord around. If he was busy, you were to stay in his palace like a good pet until he came back.

You had been with Doflamingo for... nearly two years. Doflamingo's influence made escape plans difficult to put together. So for a year and a half... You've been trying to play a good pet for Doffy while your family escapes Dressrosa.

Most of your family managed to escape amongst the chaos of Doflamingo's rule... and because you pleaded with Doflamingo to spare them. Your new ruler complied, but only because you were to be his. Since then you've waited to escape with secret correspondence... Waiting for the day you could escape...

Today was meant to be that day.

But you should've known Doflamingo could read what you were doing.

"Tsk... I should've known you'd disrespect our deal." Doflamingo scoffs, twirling the steaming flintlock in his hands.

You barely recognize his words, too focused on the slowly bleeding body in front of you. They were a family member of yours, one who promised to come save you. Now they had a lead bullet through their skull...

The bloody sight makes you nauseous... but this fate was probably the most merciful thing Doflamingo could've done.

You've seen him massacre many with his strings throughout the months.

"Sweetheart... We both know this plan was foolish." Doflamingo hums, stepping closer to tower over you. You flinch when he turns you, grabbing your chin to force your gaze upwards.

"If you weren't such a dumbass, this wouldn’t have happened." Doflamingo states bluntly, a grimace on his face. "Don't look at me like this is my fault. If you just kept being a good pet like we agreed on... I wouldn't have to shoot them for thinking they owned you."

Owned... right.... What did you expect from someone that came from Celestial Dragon lineage? He thought he owned you....

"Love... Sometimes I really do wonder about your naughty behavior...." Doflamingo scoffs, tugging you away from the newly made corpse on the dock when he sees you try to reach for it.

You struggle when he pulls you along, hand on the back of your shirt as though he was dragging a stray cat. You struggle against him but Doflamingo merely tugs you in front of him... making you tumble to your knees.

"Tell me, Sweetheart. Do you like making me mad?" Doflamingo sneers, amusement not present behind his grin.

You shake your head desperate, making Doflamingo hum as he cups your cheek.

"Even after all this time... and everything I've done for you... I thought I had you tamed." Doflamingo frowns, caressing your skin. "Yet you defy me even now. How naughty, pet...."

Doflamingo kneels down to your height, catching sight of the blood that stained. There's no sympathy in his eyes when he sees it. In fact... He just grins.

He's happy knowing your rescue is dead.

"Maybe this was punishment enough, hm?" Doflamingo teases, admiring how defeated you look. "However, you've betrayed my trust..."

You tense when Doflamingo hoists you up from the ground, practically holding you over his shoulder. You know better than to struggle at this point. He's already mad enough.

"Looks like my cute little pet needs some... lessons." Doflamingo hums, carrying you as if you're a child having a tantrum. "Don't worry... I'll have you at my command this time."

The warlord chuckles as you shift in his arms, causing him to pull you back enough to look you in the eyes.

"You don't need that family of yours. Your family is with me." Doflamingo hums, lips ghosting over your neck.

"I'll hunt that family of yours down if you're going to keep disobeying me, sweetheart." Doflamingo warns, gently nibbling at your skin.

"You don't want that, do you?" Doflamingo hums in a taunting tone against your skin, making you shake your head. "No, of course you don't..."

You then feel him bite down harshly, making you squeak as he carries you back to his palace... the hell you're meant to call home...

"So let's hope by the end of your punishment... You learn your place."

[kiragecko]

I decided to do this for the Batfamily. (Preboot version, because I disagree with DC's modern decisions.)

If the Batfam were queer, how would they talk about it?

Dick - awkward and tentative. No clue when he picked up the terminology he's using, but it's probably pretty general/balanced¹. He's not going to be using microlabels, but may have done a reasonable amount of research on whatever term he's accepted. Possibly the most ashamed out of everyone? Look, people haven't been very gentle with him about his romantic, sexual, or personal choices. And he's internalized that. I could see him EVENTUALLY being comfortably open about his identity, but that would be a long journey.

Babs - only talks to romantic partners, if she can help it. Clinical. Probably also prickly. Maybe dismissive. More focused on how it will affect their relationship than on how it affects her, or on specific terms. But also the most likely to explain the split attraction model, or pull up a graph? Possibly she'd shift tactics based on what her partner was comfortable with. Probably it would be to tactics her partner was LESS comfortable with? Babs, make things easier for yourself!

Jason - What flavour of fanon are we using here? Or canon? Using slurs that the people he grew up used for themselves could be accurate. Reading up on all the latest terminology so he can support the street kids seems in character for some versions. (He sounds like he's reading from a brochure, but like he's a counsellor reading from a brochure for your benefit!) Not having thought about it at all because he's been 'somewhat' distracted for most of his life seems VERY likely! Jason contains multitudes.

Tim - avoiding this conversation at all costs. Refuses to use labels. Might describe his experience, awkwardly, if he needed to, but would get distressed if you tried to give it a name. He might be able to accept BEING some flavour of queer, but openly talking about it in ways people can use against him? That might affect social standing and job opportunities? That might disappoint authority figures? No. Most likely to use a fake identity to explore. Has almost certainly done all the research, KNOWS current terminology, and will use it for other people. Just don't suggest he applies it to himself.

Steph - Would probably get extremely attached to language when first accepting it. Maybe to the point of policing things a bit. Because she's defensive and has spent her whole life being policed and judged! MIGHT sound like she was reading out of a college brochure. Possibly DID read it out of a college brochure!

Cass - summarizes complex topics into a 2 or 3 word sentence, and if you aren't following along, that's on YOU. Might like listening to someone else explain their extremely nuanced identity. Might be impatient. It's a toss-up, depending on how obvious she thinks things are, how much you seem to be overcomplicating it, and how much she's picking up from HOW you're saying it. I hope she figures herself out before she learns TOO much terminology, because later Cass respected words a bit too highly, and I want her to be able to understand the fluidity of self without thinking it NEEDS boxes.

Damian - okay, preteen Damian doesn't WANT to know about any of this, thank you. Many preteens do! Damian does not. Damian wants to join in on every rape and hate crime investigation, and also thinks kissing is gross. Wrangling and protecting Damian is a challenge. Older Damian would probably use microlabels, if any applied. (And he felt safe saying anything.) Accuracy is always to be desired! Also, they fit his worldview of exceptionality and isolation.

Duke - I think he'd be pretty comfortable with general, broadly understood, terminology. But he might struggle if that stuff didn't fit. Feeling compelled to explain the nuances of self seems like something he'd find really uncomfortable? So I can see him casually talking about himself if it was easy to talk about, but struggling to be open otherwise. Also, he might get pretty stuck on not being SURE about his identity. How can he talk about it if he might be wrong?? (Tim and Dick might struggle in a similar way, but it would be less obvious because of their other issues.)

Bruce - Extremely likely to used old-fashioned or clinical language, especially if it lets him sound like he's reading out of a psychology text-book. Most likely to accept the language without internalizing the identity. (It might be accurate, but that doesn't mean he needs to ACT on it.) Also most likely to have accept-ED some term 25 years ago and then just never brought it up again or acknowledged it in any way.

Alfred - wouldn't talk about it at all. Relationships are private. If it was important to do so, would use euphemisms like 'close to', 'cared for', 'did a small amount of exploration', etc.

-

¹ I kind of think of modern queer identities coming in 3 broad categories:

general - uses language like 'queer', 'LGBT', 'nonbinary' - commonly understood umbrella terms. Prioritizes fluidity of identity and connection with community over precise description

balanced - prioritizes connection with people of similar experiences, uses broad subcategories like 'gay', and 'trans', or combines broad terms together to suggest more precision, like 'nonbinary lesbian'.

microlabels - breaks down identities into more precise subsets like 'greyace', 'fem-aligned androgyne', 'genderfae', etc. Precise understanding of self prioritized over other people's understanding or connection.

'Microlabels' as shorthand is often used to mock people, so I thought it helpful to explain where I'm coming from.

he would not fucking say that but it’s he would not fucking talk about his queer identity like he was reading out of a college campus lgbt center brochure

[the-dye-stained-socialite]

As much as it is helpful for me, as a modern person, to assign my ocs modern labels in my little meta-text, i really do enjoy exploring what their gender and sexuality would have looked like in the context of the Societies they lived in, even (and especially!) with the Neath itself being more accepting!!!

Elias is never going to pass, even by modern day standards, but of course, they have a role to live up to and fit in with, and that already kind of superceeds their gender. Being fat leads to feminization and de-masculination in society, but being a wheelchair user leads to total de-gendering anyways. They're intersex, and always have been, but because surgeries were so dangerous back then on the Surface, they never had to face anything 'corrective', and when they got to the neath they were able to get a small surgery explicitly for the purpose of making penetrative sex more comfortable, something that *they* wanted. They still have their soft facial hair, but are bearded ladies still seen in carnivals whenever there's Rubberies around? Elias accepts both the Masculine and Feminine aspects of themself, and though they lean heavily into the Feminine, they don't deny the Masculine, and they enjoy themself quite a lot! Their voice is low for a woman, yet high for a man. But is any of that taken into account when they are the Regent? Their feminity is more noticeable and prominent among the Guild in Jericho, as Gondoliers (and thus: Gonfaloniere) has always been the role of a man. So here they are, holding a Maculine role, while presenting very feminely. This isn't even getting into their relationship to 'love', where they don't feel romantic attraction as others do, but their role as Regent puts heavy pressure on that, and how they're expected to marry those of a certain birth status, and nothing less. And then their sexuality being very heavily kink based!!!

Marigold is the very picture of feminity, being a Fashion Plate Model, and wearing their hair and dressing how they do, but they do not identify as a woman. This image also decays, unable to maintain their sense of self through their abuse. Their romantic and sexual reels are also tied into pain, (kink or abuse) and extremely targeted and intense.

Thursday wouldn't read as particularly butch or masculine nowadays, but back in the victorian era they're the pinacle of masculinity for a woman!!! Bifurcated cycling skirt, and masculine tailoring tastes for their jacket and vest? Yes they still wear a corset, but listen they need the bust support. Taking active roles in things as well!

i enjoy my historical fiction for the historical!!

[gloomykeis]

Tsukishima Kei's 18+ Alphabet <3

a/n: hello this is my first time posting on tumblr!! so if you read this and enjoy it pls lmk (also give me tips!) but uhh i plan on doing this for most characters bc i like doing these lol. But i hope you enjoy this!!

Warnings: smut obvi, timeskip!Tsukishima kei. male/female reader bc i feel he swings both ways.

A = Aftercare (what they’re like after sex)

I feel that Tsukishima, no matter if he's topping or bottoming, will put your needs before his after sex. Get you a warm towel to clean yourself up or if he's not too tired he'll draw you both a bath, get water, again if he's not too tired he'll also change the bed sheets.

But after all that he'll fall asleep very quickly.

B = Body part (their favourite body part of theirs and also their partner’s)

On him I feel he loves his hands not even just for volleyball purposes. But how his long fingers know how to pleasure you. He doesn't have to try hard to find your sweet-spot. But on a sweeter note he loves his hand because his hands get to hold you.

On you, your neck. He loves how you react when his long fingers wrap around it so easily. The way you tremble when he presses soft kisses on your neck or when he places hickeys to show that your his. Or how pretty your neck looks with the necklace he bought you with the letter 'K' on it.

C = Cum (anything to do with cum, basically)

I like to think that he's very safe especially if he's with a women. He doesn't want to get someone pregnant on accident if it's something he can control. So i feel he has a pretty good pull out game but also has condoms on him.

(fem reader): He loves to have you cum on his fingers, just the thought that he makes you feel soo good with just his fingers.

(male reader) He loves when you cum down his throat (secretly wants you to cum on his glasses but he'd never admit that).

D = Dirty secret (pretty self-explanatory, a dirty secret of theirs)

Has jerked off to the thought of you, him, and yamaguchi having a threesome. Not even just because he thinks yamaguchi is adorable but he's the only person he really trusts THAT much y'know. He Loves you taking control even if he's being a brat the entire time.

Or like i said in the last letter if you're a male he gets off to the thought of you cumming on his face and glasses..

E = Experience (how experienced are they? do they know what they’re doing?)

I don't think he's experienced before he met you, most of his knowledge is from porn which isn't the best teacher. But you were definitely his first. The first time is a little awkward but after a couple times and you helping him he figures out how to make you feel so good.

F = Favorite position (this goes without saying)

Missionary & reverse cowgirl (he can't choose) Missionary because he loves being able to see your face and being able to mark and wrap his fingers around your neck. But he does have days were you do most of the work due to how tired he is so thats were the reverse cowgirl comes in. He loves watching your ass bounce when you drop back down colliding with his hips.

G = Goofy (are they more serious in the moment? are they humorous? etc.)

He's definitely serious except when you react Just how he wants you to his teasing which will get a cocky giggle out of him.

H = Hair (how well-groomed are they?)

He's groomed not even just for you but for him, he hates his pubes being long, it so uncomfortable for him.

I = Intimacy (how are they during the moment? the romantic aspect)

Very intimate, he wants to make sure that you know he loves you even after all of his teasing. From leaving trails of kisses up your body to just him telling you how much he loves you and how much you mean to him while finishing, he makes sure you know you mean the world to him.

J = Jack off (masturbation headcanon)

He doesn't normally jack off by himself anymore but before you both had a sexual relationship it was pretty regular. But now most of his masturbation is done while he watches you and you watch him.

K = Kink (one or more of their kinks)

Marking. He hates it when he catches someone looking too long so. if you have a couple hickies or bites on you neck/collar bone he'll feel more secure (not that he thinks you're a cheater)

overstimulation. He feels that if you aren't trembling he didn't do a good enough job

L = Location (favourite places to do the do)

In your house it doesn't matter where in your shared home just as long as no one could see or hear you. He doesn't want anyone else’ eyes to witness how perfect you are for him and him alone.

M = Motivation (what turns them on, gets them going)

When you tease him he loses control or when you wear his clothes he fears he wont be able to hold back.

N = No (something they wouldn’t do, turn-offs)

Weird role-plays things like ddlg or step sibling stuff freaks him out. He wouldn't do anything like that.

O = Oral (preference in giving or receiving, skill, etc.)

Likes to give more but definitely wont pass up the chance to get head. However he's dangerously good with his tongue it makes you wonder how he was a virgin before you.

P = Pace (are they fast and rough? slow and sensual? etc.)

It depends on his mood or how sex started. If he's frustrated or feeling jealous it's fast and rough he needs to you to feel his emotion on each thrust. But if he or you need comfort its very sensual. Tsukishima is never really slow unless he's feeling like a tease.

Q = Quickie (their opinions on quickies, how often, etc.)

Doesn't mind quickies but definitely prefers for you two to have longer rounds and so he can make sure that you feel as much euphoria as you can.

R = Risk (are they game to experiment? do they take risks? etc.)

Depends what the risk is he doesn't want people to possibly catch you both but if it's trying a new toy or kink he's fine with taking the risk.

S = Stamina (how many rounds can they go for? how long do they last?)

last's a while even with foreplay. He can go 2-3 rounds depending on the day. If he's tired 2 rounds at most, but on the days he more energetic expect more rounds typically 3 though.

T = Toys (do they own toys? do they use them? on a partner or themselves?)

He has a toy collection for both you and him, Vibratiors, cock rings, dildos, straps even. he owns at least one of each. Mainly uses them on you but he does enjoy getting pegged from time to time so you guys own a strap.

U = Unfair (how much they like to tease)

He teases no matter if he's on top or bottom. Always has something to say even if he's moaning like a whore.

V = Volume (how loud they are, what sounds they make, etc.)

Again depends if he topping or bottoming

Bottoming: sooo many whines and moans coming from his mouth.

topping: Low grunts with a few moans mixed in.

W = Wild card (a random headcanon for the character)

Had a pretty bad porn addiction in highschool but not just videos but audios, stories as well.

X = X-ray (let’s see what’s going on under those clothes)

Soft i'd say about 4.5in Hard i'd say 5.5in but definitely a little on the girthier side.

Y = Yearning (how high is their sex drive?)

He doesn't need it all the time and there are days where he doesn't need it at all so i'd say 3-4 times a week will satisfy him.

Z = Zzz (how quickly they fall asleep afterwards)

Like I mentioned in aftercare he falls asleep after you both are cleaned up.

[lumina-649]

Sesshomaru Sucks (Mainly Sesshomaru x Rin)

Yeah. I said it. Fight me. Sesshomaru from Inuyasha freaking sucks and I'm tired of people on the internet acting like he doesn't just because he's married, conventionally attractive, and has kids. I don't even have a problem with the fact people like him. I have a problem with the fact people like him so they try to act like he's not a crappy person. I don't care for any so-called nuance this guy could have. I don't care what 'redemption' he was given. I don't care for any of that. I know for a fact that if this guy was uglier than a toad, you'd all hate him. Ain't no way in heck I'm gonna back down just because y'all are okay with the pairing of this eight year old girl with an adult freaking man.

On top of being a self-centered and careless jerk, he's also a major hypocrite and his (now romantic) relationship with Rin is so off-putting to me. "He isn't abusive to her----" Congratulations, he does the utter bare minimum---is he supposed to win a consolation prize for not being the scum of the Earth? "Oh, but Inuyasha and Kagome have a large age ga---" Inuyasha was mentally & physically (meaning both qualities should be present SIMULTANEOUSLY) the same age as Kagome when they first met. Ironically enough, before the whole Kikyo situation, he was 150 (which alludes to the fact he was a teenager within the realm of his species). The only reason why Inuyasha is chronologically older than he is---is because Kikyo shot an arrow into him that kept him in a state of limbo and being unchanged. Even regarding the overly complicated realm of when and how long it takes for supernatural beings like Inuyasha to age, one thing is for sure----Sesshomaru met Rin when she was LITTLE. "Oh, but he went away for a long time and met her as an adult---" I don't care. Let's really put this into perspective and think of what that fully entails. You're a fully grown adult who knew this person from the time they were eight years old. You then move away for a long time, then return---all for personal reasons. You see the person you knew as a child and meet with them. Would it NOT be considered weird at LEAST if you were to be in that situation and then think, "Hmm, I wanna get with that." In what universe would that context NOT be gross? Who in their right mind would willingly marry someone they used to know as a child while they were an ADULT? At least Inuyasha was mentally and physically a TEENAGER when he first met Kagome. Sesshomaru has known Rin as an adult from the time her age was a SINGLE DIGIT. The fact I even have to explain any of this makes me wonder if I'm in a simulation waiting for Morpheus to wake me up. If it wouldn't be okay for Kagome to wait until Shippo was an adult to have kids with him, why is it okay for Sesshomaru to do that with Rin? It makes no sense. "That's how it was back then---" Still doesn't make it any less gross, bro :) Though, let's say somehow that I am wrong----and that there's nothing wrong with Sesshomaru's relationship with Rin---

NOPE, never mind, he's still a major freaking hypocrite. He gave Inuyasha so much crap for having Kagome with him, hated his own mother for being human, hated his father for being WITH a human----only for him to then turn around, marry a human girl, and then have KIDS WITH HER. So even if everything else that I said before this aspect of the topic is incorrect (which I really don't think it is or will be convinced it's not), you gotta admit that Sesshomaru's behavior + hypocrisy is very slimy. Heck, even if they had her first encounter him as an adult or if he was ALSO kid when they first met---I most likely would've been a lot more receptive to them being a couple. "Oh you must've not watched the show/you have poor reading comprehension---" What else is there to comprehend? A guy married a girl who he knew as an adult when he had first met her when she was EIGHT. He practically raised this girl before letting her go with Kaede. WHAT ELSE IS THERE TO ANALYZE?! "Sesshomaru didn't raise Rin---" Okay, so what the heck was he doing the whole time she was around, then? Because he was protecting her, taking care of her, making sure she had stuff----that sounds like raising a child to me. Pretty sure Rumiko (the creator) even describes him as Rin's hogosha (which means protector). Even if not, the so-called romantic feelings Sesshomaru could've had are never mentioned of when they started forming. But no matter when or how it started, it's still VERY weird because he knew her when she a----say it with me----A SINGLE DIGIT. He still knew her as an adult when she was kid, so even if those 'feelings' were to have only begun when she was (let's say) 18, it's still off. I understand that both Inuyasha and Sesshomaru were previously morally corrupt/murderous beings before undergoing the general direction their stories went in. So as the audience, we tend to forgive things from them we normally wouldn't---especially considering the overall nature of their plot. But if a character is going to be a murderous piece of crap, don't have them be a hypocritical murderous piece of crap and act like we're supposed to forget it afterward. As much as I love the addition of Yashahime (because duh, it's more content that involves characters I like), the romantic relationship between Rin and Sesshomaru felt so unnecessary to me (if not downright disgusting---which it is). Don't get me wrong, Kagome and Inuyasha's relationship is not in any way perfect either, but at least Kagome wasn't freaking EIGHT YEARS OLD.

He really should've just stayed her father figure/caretaker/platonic mentor or something like that. A cold-blooded fiend like Sesshomaru reforming upon learning to care through adopting a child would've made a MUCH better and cuter arc for him than whatever the [BLEEP] this is.

Insult me all you want, but it's the truth. Sesshomaru x Rin is freaking disgusting.

[prettyboykatsuki]

oh boy lmfao.

hi. this is the extended authors note for my love, my alibi. there is nothing important to the fic itself so if you're comfortable with the presented dead dove content- you are more then welcome to skip this entirely. i hope you enjoy/enjoyed reading!

cw very long discussion about fictional incest. just me yapping.

this fic is the first long-form incest fic im publishing on ao3 in general but also the first dc fic i am posting for love and deepspace which has a very wide audience. i've been warned a few times about antis and whatnot but i don't make this post trying to specifically address them but to kind of briefly weigh in on my choice to write caleb and mcs relationship this way

despite the english localization and how it attempts to scrub out the incestual element of caleb and mcs relationship - i don't think you can remove this aspect without butchering calebs character almost entirely.

i would go as far as saying removing the familial aspect of calebs feelings and reducing him to close childhood friend makes him as significantly less moving and less interesting.

i also think a lot of the story's thematic choices and motifs (forbidden fruit for example) do not make sense unless you consider the relationship between mc and caleb as siblings first and foremost.

the level of intensity and emotional angst just really explicitly does not work the same. there's no reason for mc to react to romantic advances with such guilt and denial towards a character she explicitly considers a friend.

there is also no reason for caleb to feel explicitly responsible for behavior in the way he is in canon.

caleb and mc being siblings is a crucial aspect of their relationship - and it is also crucial to note they experience a conflicting sense of mutual attraction in the years they grow up that way. evidenced in multiple of the cards.

also in literally every other version of the game (cn, jpn, kr) it is affirmed explicitly that caleb views himself as mcs brother SDKFJSD.

for all of these reasons i wanted to explore the nature of their relationship and play with some of the discomfort because i think it makes for an interesting story. i dont think caleb sees being mcs brother as contradictory. his denial of their relationship feels intentionally hurtful to mc in order to make her address the uncomfortable underlying attraction imo. caleb wanting to be everything to mc being literal in nature. this is why he can also act very parental towards her despite the small age gap.

i can understand why incest in this regard might be uncomfortable for some of you to engage with, and i respect your feelings and your choice but i do encourage you to look beyond the moral taboo and try to examine the themes that come with incest like forbidden romance and co-dependence and think critically about how it impacts the story

and if you are still uncomfortable comfortable engaging with it, feel free to click off !! genuinely i get it, its not for everyone. but please do so without judgement of those who are comfortable. no real people are exploited in writing this. it is all make believe and for fun

all that being said, i hope you like this fic that made me crazy.

love,

fang.

[lisbethtylanhnem]

Personal headcanon, though, but to me, it has always been more of a foreshadowing element about Jude's new magical abilities as the queen of Faerie than a romantic thing. And Cardan's. Powers.

Cardan says, "Jude, you can't really think I don't know it's you. I knew you from the moment you walked into the brugh."

And the way I interpretated it—the brugh told him. Kinda. His Faerie king powers were going crazy like, "The Faerie Queen is in her palace!! Close to you!!"

She had to push her way through the crowd. It's unlikely that he took a good look at her from the moment she stepped foot inside his court. Yet, he cannot lie.

Notice how he says he knew her. Not recognized. And this, not when he saw her, but when she walked in.

Notice the subtle unclearness so typical of faerie lies?

Moreover, Cardan, up until this point, has been kinda bad at telling Jude and Taryn apart. To the point of being fooled into forfeiting half of his army (I know he was poisoned, but still. It's not something obvious that he can tell them apart.)

Cardan and Jude share a bond that I love and, sure, this moment made my heart do summersaults, but realistically speaking... yeah, I think it was a sort of red herring. Meant for us to be like, "Jurdan!!" When we should have been like,"Wait a goddamn minute. This is new." *bombastic side-eye*

Jude has a really interesting relationship with Madoc, and part of it is him underestimating her again and again despite having raised her to be a human version of himself. It's his fatal flaw to never expect Jude to defy him the way she does.

Understand that Madoc not recognizing her doesn't speak so much of his inability as a father (Taryn and Jude used to trick their human parents too when they were young!) as it does of his ego. If anything, Madoc loves too much. Jude's disguise works so well because Madoc cannot imagine himself as being outsmarted by his daughter.

Holly Black is really big on themes, too, and, I don't know. It just kinda checks out.

Those were my 2 cents! Head canon it the way you want, though. It's just a way of reading this scene that makes my brain go brr.

Once a week, do you ever think about the fact that madoc couldn't tell it was jude, despite having "raised" her for most of her life but cardan immediately knew it was her in her disguise, or are you normal?

[messmagu]

The guy doesn't know what personal space is, i think

[lucyshypemaster]

we genuinely need more platonic male-female relationships like the one brynne and aiden have

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

Instruction on Courtship

[First] Prev <--> Next

[horsechestnut]

Villain Cass Arc bad, but I do think it's very cute that she is immediately like "I want Tim to be my partner. Surely he'll understand, he's brother shaped :)"

[supemaeve]

"You don't need powers, you just need to be human"

[notacatdown]

yes and no. they definitely shouldve had one, but how things flow in the drama (i didnt read the novel so feel free to educate me!), between all that happens in ep 7 and ep 8, it almost felt like there was no time for that to happen. if anything, maybe instead of his percent going up from being jealous of seeing her with fuyi, they couldve done something there, but the version of ziqi theyre trying to portray is one who is already beginning to like her romantically, skipping over the friendship part and just wanting to Be Together. like a desperate lovesick puppy

I figure ep 9 is a better place to respond than your ep 4 rewatch because it's here that Miaomiao says Mu Sheng should go see a therapist. The drama keeps a lot of the novel's dialogue about how Mu Sheng sees himself (he's tired of his life, he thinks that his death is the ideal solution to everything, he believes that his only purpose in life is to protect Mu Yao, etc), but it doesn't go into detail. How does a person with such deep loathing for himself and suicidal tendencies behave?

In the novel, the moment when he realizes how much he wants her affection and her warmth, he instinctively wants to kill that desire for self-protection. He believes that he's a monster and only a saint like Mu Yao will care about him. He fears rejection and believes that it's inevitable, so he wants to get rid of her. But at the same time, he really wants her attention and gets upset when she ignores him. The more he likes her, the more he gets scared of what he thinks will happen. He doesn't have the sense of security to want to enter a romantic relationship yet.

(Whereas in ep 8, it seems as if Miaomiao had said she likes him instead of saying she cares about him because she's his disciple, he wouldn't try to send her away. His fear is that she will reveal his secret to Mu Yao.)

He hates himself, so he keep sabotaging his relationships. He has to believe he's deserving of love and friendship to stop pushing her away. And even then, healthy behavior isn't the absence of bad behavior. It's a completely new set of behavior that happy people learn from their interactions with parents as children. For a person like Mu Sheng, who didn't come from a happy family, he has to learn it as an adult from Miaomiao.

We can sort of see this in the drama too when Mu Sheng says he doesn't like to argue with Mu Yao in ep 4. 

I really like how you phrased his mindset in that moment "placating her and telling her he doesn't like arguing with her, that sister knows best, just because he can't deal with hearing her say these hurtful things anymore, and he cant handle it if his sister has such a negative view of him, all while hes trying to smile. its genuinely hurting him internally, as we see in a moment. "

In the novel scenes where he thinks/says those lines, he's innocent of what Mu Yao is accusing him of even though it looks incriminating. Mu Yao gives him time to explain, but he doesn't want to. He wants the conversation to end as fast as possible. As the readers, we can see that this sort of misunderstanding has happened so many times in the past and shaped Mu Yao's view of him, but she still asks him. She desperately wants him to be innocent, but he's so stuck in his negative emotions that he can't see this.

"if you think it was me, then it was me." This new line and his expression when he says this is so perfect for how Mu Sheng views himself in the novel. His self-esteem is a house of cards shakily propped up by how Mu Yao and Miaomiao view him. He places Mu Yao and Miaomiao on a pedestal, and I like how the novel shows this places an unfair burden on Mu Yao and Miaomiao. I don't think this aspect is shown in the drama.

Anyways, I like that we get to see a different take on their relationship in the drama. I just wish the drama spent more time on it, especially their relationship as fan/reader and author.

—

since mu sheng is xia ziqi's self-insert, who does that make yao (not that she has to be a specific someone, i just mean does she stem from somewhere)? 

I viewed it as this is how a teenage boy would write an empowered woman. Except for a few scenes closely adapted from the novel, she doesn't have emotional fragility. I love that scene where Mu Yao is the only one not affected by the water demon's deepest fear trap, so its not that I want her changed. More like, it would be interesting to see her change. For example, if she had rethought her view on what a hero should be like after meeting Guo Xiu.

On a side note, that Mu Sheng would say he's not a member of the Mu clan and only Mu Yao's brother would imply he was treated badly. Do Mu Yao and Mu Sheng ever talk about this in the drama?

In the novel, Fu Zhou is a female author, has no connection to Mu Sheng, and the story is not a dream. So, the characters that a teenage boy writes would be different from the characters that a woman would write. It would have been interesting to see the female protagonists that Fu Zhou writes as an adult. I'm curious how Fu Zhou would portray Mu Yao in his revised version. I think she would be more nuanced.

The drama removes three female characters (Lin Yu's aunt, Mu Yao's biological mother, and Mu Yao's father's legal wife) and adds four male characters and one female character (Cuicui, Guo Xiu, the marquis, Liu Fuyi's master, and Liu-niang). The novel's final mystery arc is female-centric. It can be viewed as a tale of four mothers, the sacrifices they've made, and how that shaped their children in a patriarchal society part 2. 

(Which sounds depressing, but it's being revealed during the happiest time in Mu Sheng and Mu Yao's lives. Their childhoods sucked, but they met people that love them and helped them walk out the shadows of their childhood, and their future will be so happy. I think this is why the author chose to reveal their parents' stories this way.)

Although I want to protest about screenwriters that change female-centric novels to focus on the male protagonist in xianxia drama adaptations, it wouldn't make sense that a teenage boy would write that type of story. He doesn't understand how women think or how motherhood changes and impacts women.

"again, i think miaomiao is disregarding that this is a parallel universe, since she just sees it as the book's world and everyone is pretend, so venting like this, especially to ziqi, is not something that she has to hesitate about. they dont understand, and they dont fully question her, so why not speak to them as if they arent real people? at this point in the series, thats still how she sees them."

When I rewatch the part where she's sharing her vulnerable thoughts to him, I wish we could have gotten a scene where they're themselves with their memories intact and continued this conversation. It would have been such a good resolution! We never get to see them on the same page. We find out that Catching Demons is like a love letter to Miaomiao, but Miaomiao doesn't know that. I feel like I went to a restaurant, patiently waited for the chef to cook, enjoyed tasting while waiting, and right after the splendid meal was about to be served, the restaurant closed and takeout wasn't allowed.

"i like that after 5 years of traveling together the name ziqi has not come up once."

Lol. Shows that Mu Sheng has no friends T.T Strangers would call him Mu-gongzi/Young Master Mu to be polite. Mu Yao and Liu Fuyi call him Ah'Sheng. His mom calls him Sheng'er. In the novel, Miaomiao is the only one that calls him by Mu Sheng or Ziqi. I like that the marquis refers to him as that Ziqi guy because that's how he hears Miaomiao's address for Mu Sheng. That was a nice detail.

and yes, miaomiao has clearly changed a lot in the story, yet with how she is supposed to escape, the system will still ensure that she gets through it similarly, since she HAS to defeat the resentful woman, so the story has to continue,

I keep forgetting the system gives her two goals in the drama. I think this is because we only see Miaomiao working on Mu Sheng's favorability % and Mu Yao and Liu Fuyi's relationship. Let me know if I'm wrong or if I miss something. In the novel, she works on finding out more about the final boss and increasing her fighting ability to prepare for the ending throughout the story.

—

When I was re-watching the drama, I noticed how the omission of very minor details changed how I view Miaomiao. For example, in the novel, when Mu Sheng sticks the immobilizing charm on her to snatch Liu Fuyi's sachet from her, MiaoMiao's first thought is on the charm, how cool and useful it is. She asks him for one. It shows that she cares more about the demon hunter world and planning for future dangers over Mu Sheng and his petty behavior.

but hes so annoyed LOL. using a control talisman because HE WANTS THAT DANG IT. no hesitation at ALL.

ahhhhhh looking at the sachet for a moment and then her as he goes to grab it. he wants to intimidate and tease her so badlyyyyyyy

Oh Mu Sheng, if only you kept this jealous behavior and ripped off the love bracelet. What was the point of testing the bracelet? He should have just yanked the bracelet off. It's like seeing people on fire and not wanting to get close to them to throw water over them because they're naked. In an emergency situation, there is an exemption for everyday politeness.

In a magical world where a single talisman can make someone execute a complicated action and one person has the power to alter the memories of an entire village for years on end, and there's no magical way to check, an experienced demon hunter like Mu Sheng should have basic safety protocols. If she isn't acting like herself, the first step should be to strip her down to make sure there's no hidden magical item and question her to pinpoint when their memory or behavior changed.

and how he looks surprised "its a sachet" / "doesnt it look like that?" my guy what skills do you possess besides being super hot? because idk i havent quite seen them

Lol. Is it clear in the drama that he's terrible because this is the first time he's made a protective sachet? In the novel, the first ones that he offers Miaomiao are three lumpy bags crammed with talismans. A protective sachet normally has ONE talisman. He stayed up after their 5-in-a-row games to make them. Gets rejected by Miaomiao. Later on, he forcefully gives her one that's just as nice as Liu Fuyi's. Presumably, he's been secretly working on perfecting his sachet making skills.

crossing his armmmmssss i LOVE how much he does that and how LITTLE fuyi does it. like absolute foils for each other. wait. are mu sheng and liu fuyi supposed to be two sides of ziqi? ive considered it but i dont know. blah, i dont want to talk about this right now, so many of you are much better at this than i am.

This would have been so interesting for the drama to explore! What does it mean that Fu Zhou had Mu Sheng marry Lin Yu (a woman that was in love with Liu Fuyi? Just a way to torture himself? I wish we got to see them interact more beyond that drinking their sorrows away scene.

Early on in the novel, Mu Sheng has a one-sided competition going on with Liu Fuyi. Liu Fuyi is oblivious to this. As he likes himself more, he does this less. By the final story arc, he doesn't react negatively when Liu Fuyi consoles him about something. He still gets jealous of Liu Fuyi, but he recognizes that it's his problem and that it isn't okay to act out his jealousy. Mu Sheng's precious character growth!

hes just so pretty, even blurred. AND SO IS YAO. mu siblings gorgeous genes even tho theyre not blood-related.

Pretty fan art of these three from xiaohongshu.

i find that on rewatch, i like cuicui less and less? i had no problem with him on my first watch, and he doesnt even do anything wrong. i think i just found it grating to go through his scenes again LOL. like goddammit just give me the romance and action!

My tipping point for Cuicui was ep 21. I wish we could have seen Miaomiao supporting Mu Sheng after he spits out blood during the battle scene instead of having to hold a 150-year old bamboo demon. It would make sense that CuiCui was stuck in his original form because of the pressure of the formation. His role is to help push them together, but he's always standing between them and literally keeping them apart. I can see why fans are so upset about his character on Weibo and Douban.

(Feel free to ignore this ranting. Got carried away. I get so annoyed whenever I think about this. 

Ep 23 was the final straw. I watch the drama at 2x speed in any scene he's in. In the novel, we have Miaomiao idly playing with Mu Sheng's hair and him getting super flustered. She handfeeds him her snacks or any food that she enjoys with him, but it has now become the exclusive-privilege of Cuicui.

In the last third of the novel, even when she's talking to someone else, she notices when Mu Sheng is sad. She has become as sensitive to him as he is to her. She reaches out to hold his hand when he sits down next to her. She half-hugs him and holds his hands to make dumplings. Just little moments.

Instead, we have this in the drama:

In ep 14, Mu Sheng walks away because he's upset and jealous. After a similar situation in the novel, MiaoMiao drank a bit to get courage and went to Mu Sheng's room to apologize for poking at his sore spot. She ends up drinking way too much. After she apologizes, she rambles on that she's worried about him. That he should like someone like her. That he would be happy with her. That she would pamper him. She kisses him on the cheek and then tries to wipe her rouge off his cheek. This is how Mu Sheng knows that Miaomiao likes him.

How did they go from this to needing a 10-year old child to progress their relationship? Cuicui spilling Miaomiao's crush to Mu Sheng even though she told him not to.)

Sorry, this got too long. I've never felt so frustrated by any drama character before. More than any other reason, Cuicui is the reason why I only re-watch up to ep 8. I was curious to read your thoughts on ep 9 because you've pointed out so many things I missed, so I continued. I can just scroll past the Cuicui parts.

THE STUNNED LOOK ON HIS FACE LMAO. hes like "what did i do? did i do something wrong?" but then hes thinking "she is way too upset about this. what is wrong with her?"

i think she also feels very, again, shy over this whole thing, because of the meaning of putting a ring on her finger in her world, and wants an excuse to get it off. which is why she asks for his demon staff. 

ziqi is so unserious. like not only does he not want to indulge in an emotional convo but he also has to pick on her and take personal offense.

miaomiao only taking fuyis hand. yeah thats on purpose.

say what youd like but i think he stares at her chest because he wants to confront her by looking at her face but cant, so he settles for that, then perhaps realizes that its inappropriate, so he looks back down. im just reading into things, thats what i do here.

Your observations are so fun to read! Would add a star to this drama's rating for it. Thank you for sharing!

lgief rewatch ep. 9

yay ep 9! lots of shy ziqi AND miaomiao moments~ thats basically most of what this episode is to me minus the few times miaomiao discusses her world/CD world and the novel storyline.

if youd like to discuss lgief, feel free to send me asks, chats, or reply to any of these posts.

ep 1 / ep 2 / ep 3 / ep 4 pre-festival / ep 4 festival / ep 5, 5 part 2 / ep 6 / ep 7 / ep 8 / ep 9

following up to the ending of ep 8, we see ziqi STILL HOLDING HER HAND after putting on the ring.

and when miaomiao rips her hand away, hes like "wtf?"

did they put rings on fingers back then for marriage (yes im too lazy to look it up, sue me)? regardless, this feels like, even if it is, ziqi is clueless regardless, because he has no romantic awareness.

he purses his lips because he feels like hes committed some faux pax, but he doesnt know what, so he has to ask. the way he asks is so gentle, he really wants to know ;_;

miaomiao doesnt wanna tell! i think she was truly feeling some attraction towards him in this moment, but shes shy, and if she tried to tell him, hed make fun of her, or he wouldnt get it.

THE STUNNED LOOK ON HIS FACE LMAO. hes like "what did i do? did i do something wrong?" but then hes thinking "she is way too upset about this. what is wrong with her?" and maybe he also, though this is just me making things up, felt some sort of jamais vu, perhaps.

cut to her feeling like shes just gotta drop it now because hes watching her and sent her here to practice.

he looks. so good.

LOL its so funny she says she doesnt think its as good as the ladle when it very clearly is. i think she just wanted to get out of training here.

the way that as SOON as she hears him take in a breath she says "dont call me stupid" and she can barely look him in the eye when she says that. hes so cute for obliging.

i think she also feels very, again, shy over this whole thing, because of the meaning of putting a ring on her finger in her world, and wants an excuse to get it off. which is why she asks for his demon staff. the way she shuffles over is so fucking funny. oh miaomiao, never change.

fully reblogged ver here

[yellowocaballero]

I said a little bit about this in a comment a few hours ago (hey kenny) and I actually really felt like saying more.

For all that gay people/Tumblr people/AO3 peope/waves hand are really, really into found family they are actually pretty allergic to conceptualizing familial relationships outside of nuclear family roles.

I see a billion posts on Tumblr about how friendships can be just as important as romantic relationships, if not more, but nobody ever actually writes the friendship as important as a romantic relationship. Or friendships are interpreted as romantic, or friendships are sidelined for the romantic relationship. It's always a weird disparity between what people say are important and people actually find important for me.

So when we do step out of romantic relationship and into gen relationships, we typically enter the trope world of #foundfamily. But the same kind of flattening of characters for the sake of shoving them into yaoi ghost archetypes honestly also really happens with family relationships.

There is always a dad. There's always a mom. There's always siblings (frequently the canon female love interest). Maybe an uncle? Ex-wife if we are feeling sexy that day.

I really rarely see people interested in #foundfamily relationships outside of those boxes. It is overwhelmingly, entirely American-centric. There's no recognition of the unbelievable diversity and breadth of human relationships, or the very many ways there are to love somebody. In fanfic, if there's a much older male character emotional close to younger characters, he's dad mode. And the relationship then follows the character and story beats of the father-child relationship intended to draw out those fuzzy family feelings. Damn, I read found family stuff to get away from the intense claustrophobia of the fandom's favorite ship, I'm not here to get family yaoi ghosted here too.

I think you can create a very unique and engaging relationship if you're wiling to engage with the unknown and uncomfortable. Make a path without the paint by numbers story beats and character arcs. Please stop letting tropes rule your writing instead of construct it.

Write stories about love. Write relationships about loving each other. Just start from there, and don't worry about anything else. Create a relationship that is its own. Let it breathe. It can stand on its own two feet. It'll be a richer relationship and a richer story.